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 EAA accident 
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What I find most annoying with many people flying modern gyros, is that they don't fly them like gyros, they seem to fly them like planes, This is part of the reason I hate the name gyro plane... they are not planes, they are nothing like a plane. They are copters... they have rotating wings. If someone wants to fly a plane... then, learn to fly a plane.

The guy in the gyro didn't need to do a 360 on final? If he needed to lose some height because he was too high, he only needed to lift the nose to slow down, then lower the nose to get airspeed back and create a steeper angle of approach. In a plane on final if too high, the pilot can side slip ... or just go around. When I was learning to fly Cessnas, my instructor pulled the power (in a C150) at about 2000' over the field and told me to 'get to the runway'

I did so, but on final I was about 600' over the threshold fence... so not enough altitude to go around, but too high to make the first 2/3 of the runweay. He asked me what I should do?

He said 'my ship'... pulled on full flaps, nosed it over and we were hanging in our harnesses looking at the ground... he asked what the airspeed was, to which I said "65 kts" ... he eased the nose up out of the dive and we ended up landing before the half runway. The barn door flaps on the tiny 150 kept the airspeed in check even though it was like we were going down an elevator shaft.

Sure, heavier planes with different flap arrangements (and passengers to consider) can't do stuff like that... and even doing something like that on final 'is not normal/predictable' and would have been as dangerous as a 360 on final to lose height. It is all about predictability... if the gyro pilot had needed to lose height, the 360 wasn't a good decision in my opinion. :badluck

Again I ask, has the gyro pilot said anything yet? How is he and the passenger doing? :noidea :pop :wol2 :Wolvie


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Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:33 pm
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Just one other thing... when flying at a busy airport, knowing I am amongst other aircraft, I tend to watch the guy in front to look for clues like sink and wind condition/turbulance and to make sure I am not getting closer and closer... I wouldn't be gazing around or eyes down in the cockpit... I want to know where he is and that he has landed and cleared the runway :eek

I am very surprised that the heli pilot didn't see the gyro initiate the left turn of the 360? Don't you guys watch the guy in front on final? :noidea :wol2 :Wolvie

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Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:39 pm
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Hey Muz...check out my IP address!
Tokyo this week, the korea then ba k to Guam.

I also am not a fan of flying a gyro like a fixed wing. And in my opinion the e ent organi,ers should not have allowed helis to be mixed in with fixed wing patterns.

They don't do that at LAX, they even have their ow. Air Control.
Hope for everyones sake they learn from this.


Wed Aug 30, 2023 4:22 am
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Flying these Eurotubs like a fixed wing is stupid - These guys don't take advantage of their special characteristics
As for the accident I doubt the helicopter saw the gyro low off his nose or on collision course
The pilot sitting in a Rotorway has a lot of obstructions blocking his view It's not like a Bell 47.
If I owned one I'd be adding more glass and removing door frames


Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:34 pm
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Hilly, maybe he WAS removing door frames?

Too soon?.....never!


Wed Aug 30, 2023 8:33 pm
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I was at Oshkosh 2023, but not on the day of this accident.

Doing such a tight left 360 in that very busy pattern, instead of just going around, was very ill-advised. Neither the ELA nor the helo could see each other. An avoidable tragedy!

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Sat Oct 14, 2023 3:30 pm
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In helicopters it's go around never a 360.
Get out of the area regroup and go again.

Take your time enjoy the ride


Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:11 pm
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Asking again... has the gyro pilot or passenger said anything yet? How are they both? :noidea :pop :wol2 :Wolvie

:Jim

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Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:27 pm
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MadMuz wrote:
What I find most annoying with many people flying modern gyros, is that they don't fly them like gyros, they seem to fly them like planes, This is part of the reason I hate the name gyro plane... they are not planes, they are nothing like a plane. They are copters... they have rotating wings. If someone wants to fly a plane... then, learn to fly a plane.

The guy in the gyro didn't need to do a 360 on final? If he needed to lose some height because he was too high, he only needed to lift the nose to slow down, then lower the nose to get airspeed back and create a steeper angle of approach. In a plane on final if too high, the pilot can side slip ... or just go around. When I was learning to fly Cessnas, my instructor pulled the power (in a C150) at about 2000' over the field and told me to 'get to the runway'

I did so, but on final I was about 600' over the threshold fence... so not enough altitude to go around, but too high to make the first 2/3 of the runweay. He asked me what I should do?

He said 'my ship'... pulled on full flaps, nosed it over and we were hanging in our harnesses looking at the ground... he asked what the airspeed was, to which I said "65 kts" ... he eased the nose up out of the dive and we ended up landing before the half runway. The barn door flaps on the tiny 150 kept the airspeed in check even though it was like we were going down an elevator shaft.

Sure, heavier planes with different flap arrangements (and passengers to consider) can't do stuff like that... and even doing something like that on final 'is not normal/predictable' and would have been as dangerous as a 360 on final to lose height. It is all about predictability... if the gyro pilot had needed to lose height, the 360 wasn't a good decision in my opinion. :badluck

Again I ask, has the gyro pilot said anything yet? How is he and the passenger doing? :noidea :pop :wol2 :Wolvie


:Jim

:Confederate


Yeah it worries me a bit seeing all these guys doing vertical descents in gyros to loose height on final. Perfectly sensible thing to do unless some fixed wing is in circuit with you. Seems the steepness of this type of descent could easily see us just appear in some buggers windscreen. Great fun if there is no one around of course. But happy to be wrong on this one.


Thu Oct 19, 2023 2:32 am
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