The 582 Blue head was the pinnacle of aviation 2 strokes with the 503 right behind. The 582 has the water bypass to prevent cold seizures, has a harmonic balancer on the flywheel, ceramic water pump seal , use good oil and the 582 will be a great engine, all the issues were worked out by the time the 582 was released. All the good stuff from the 618, but without the power valves.
The 503 was just rock solid simple, air cooled, piston ported, only has 4 moving parts, crank, pistons, and fan.

From what I have read the Yamaha Phaser is about 20lbs heavier than the 582, but it is putting out 80 HP, Fuel injected, dry sump. designed to run at high rpm.

There was some bloke from Australia that flew a rotax 582 powered aircraft 12 hours over open water.....I won't fly any farther over water than I am willing to swim back to shore..

Good to know. The only oil I can get here (and I have A LOT) is the quaker state stuff aircraft spruce is selling as direct replacement for the oil (Penn if I recall) rotax suggested.
I don't hot dog the engine, watch my gauges and fly in a sedate manner.
I ran my 503 like that for 7 years without a hitch.

Rotax make good engines, they are expensive, but again , we don't fly a lot so the cost is "affordable".
I think that the better choice for a mono seater is a rotax 912,

I have weighted the Rotax 582 with all on it and it exceeded 50 kilos ... so a sort ot 15 extra kilos are ok in my opinion.
in addition the fuel consumption on a Rotax 912 is significantly lower (12 litres/ hours)

it means that the total flying weight would the same then with a 582 ..

I did not mounted a 912 because when I did my gyro the Max weight in France was 300 kilos (gyro, pilot and fuel) and with a 912 I would not have been legal .. now they hare extended the weight up to 330 kilos making the 912 use legal on a mono seater

I think that a mono seater with a 912 is the better choice

it is hyper reliable, the engine can be found for 6000 dollars and gives 1500 hours of potential ...

I don't think that a Yamaha would be cheaper .

the yamaha engines are interesting for twin seaters engines where we need 120 hp or more .. compared to a 35.000 euros rotax 914 it is interesting

but here again there is the possibility of buying a 912 rotax (80 hp) and to mount the italian turbou charger kit which is lsa certifiers and has been mounted on all pagotto gyroplanes (braki gyros) for years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagotto_Brakogyro

the total cost is arround 15.000 euros .. this what I did

In Australia, one importer (Burt Flood) has sole importer rights and right of repair (I believe)... so, to buy a Rotax, one has to buy from Burt Flood Imports. I believe a 582 is around $AU30,000 ($US 20,150) ... so, for many, too expensive to contemplate.

The 912 and 914 are between $AU45,000 ($US30,200) and $AU55,000 ($US37,000) from what I have been told.

I say expensive, because in Oz, we can buy a new car for less than $AU20k... so to buy a 582 Rotax for $AU27k... is rather expensive (for what you get). One can also buy a brand new sea doo (with a motor similar to a Rotax) for under $AU10k

https://www.drive.com.au/news/cheapest- ... alia-2022/

murray,

if you ever need a rotax, let me know I will find a cheap one for your crate it and send it in australia !
I recently bought a 150 houred 582 (to have an extra engine) I paid it 1500 euros ...

I bought my 912 5000 euros (with 200 hours of flight) ..

the resellers in australia are more then expensive ...

be carefull it snow sleds motors are ok for aircraft use (I mean simply keeping the original ignition/injection system) it is not the same story with the sea dos .. their engine are generally fitted with sensors mounted in the sea water cooling flow .. and it is not really easy to adpt all of this to an engine running out of the water , their computers are programmed to be used with a sea water cooling system

I know this becaus one of out french forum members had tried this and never managed to run the engine properly ... he has to mount a custom injection system ... but as he did not have any dyno .. it never worked ..

Yes Rotax builds good engines, the biggest problem is that they bend you over and rape you for parts...
Rotax 503 crank seals are:
ROTAX
PN:831 950 Crankshaft Oil Seal 35x72x7/ ....$39.33 ea.

AFTERMARKET
Ski-Doo Mag & PTO Oil Seal (35x72x7 ) Our Price: $4.53

At least you can cross reference sled parts to the rotax 2 strokes...But not so with the 9 series..
The only 9 series cross over is the carbs, BMW airhead motorcycles used the same bing carbs, you can buy BMW carb rebuild kits for about $40.00 The same carb kits from Rotax are around $450.00
The 9 series rotax engine can be rebuilt ONE time the next time it needs overhaul you throw it in the trash.

Elwood, my friend

I don't want to contradict you at all ... but a rotax 912 costs 12000 Euro new TTC with all on it have a look to the loravia prices in the file attached to this message

I think it is cheap .. really cheap for a plug and play motor ...

you put it on your gyro ... and fly for years and year ..

cheers mate

The rotax 912 -80 hp here is $17,258 USD$ Plus the additionals.
What's Not Included:
Coolant Radiator
Oil Cooler
Exhaust System
Engine Ring Mount
Air Box
Oil Lines
Air Filters
So just under $20,000 USD.
That may be cheap for some folks..
My Yamaha makes 130 HP and cost: Engine and gearbox around $3,6oo.oo USD..
New engine is $4000, + $2000, for gearbox

I agree rotax is a great reliable engine, but you are paying the premium, plus the tooling to work on the engines is quite pricey. Aviation is not a cheap sport I understand that.

interesting

for me 12.700 dollars (the french price) is cheap for a complete rotax 912 with all (radiator etc).. OK 3700 euros is much cheaper of course

20.000 UDS is a scam I am 100% with you Elwood ..

as for the Yamaha you say that it is possible to buy a new engine for 4000 dollars ... I thought only "old" engines could be converted because the new ones have anti pollution systems, probes and other stuff that makes it difficult to adapt on an aircraft.

I obviously miss information on the subject.

which new engine fits our need please ?

On this website the engine is $5526.00 I am sure shopping around you might find a bit lower price. (partzilla is not the cheapest) A guy here bought one last year and paid $4000.
https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/arcti ... rts-302833
The engine comes with all sensors and new throttle bodies.

Then there are the SkyTrax gearboxes
https://www.skytraxusa.com/
The "Nytro gearbox" is for the 3 cyl.

I am using the SPG-# gearbox
https://tangogyro.com/parts-prices.html

If I was not an aircraft mechanic by trade I would recommend the rotax to someone who is not mechanical.
Building and flying the Tango has been very rewarding, after many years of single place flying, arrow, hirth, rotax, and arctic cat 2 stroke engines.

The Tango is much cheaper because they are using the low mileage sled engines so total engine pkg is aroung $5ooo. USD compared to a rotax at US prices.Not for everyone but a different way of doing the same things.
I currently have 3 rotax 503's on the bench for decarbon, and a Yamaha 3 cyl fresh rebuild all wrapped in plastic that I hope I will not need.

Scott, do you have a build diary of your Tango? Was not quality of the welding and fiberglass good?

Gyrodreamer, I am still going to build a Tandem Dominator knockoff, bought all my aluminum and steel when Wicks had a sale, bought a 2 place RFD Rotorhead. Just need to get my Long EZ finished.

HI Elwood,
even 5526 euros is a bargain ..
interesting as a matter of fact, can the 2 sorts those Gear boxes be directly mounted on the artic cat engine ?
is it ok to run the artic cat up to say 12.000 feets ? I think there is a lambda probe ... I hate those sensors .. a source of issues
thx for all this

I have it saved on the computer somewhere...I will look. The quality of the welds are very good, the initial tangos that they showed at Bensen Days were early models the welds and fiberglass work has greatly improved, Does it have the fit and finish of an American Ranger? or Autogyro? No, but it is very nice and still is a joy to fly.
even without all the bells and whistles.

That is not a bad price Giro... 12000 euros is about $AU19,000... then there would be 10% tax and duties/bond release duties etc etc... so, the price right up there.

Also, the dealer here would be out of the question for any spare parts or warranty... they are really dark on imports going around them

I have been told the best place to get a 912 in Oz is flying schools with Rotax powered planks... they have to remove them at 1500 hours or so... I would rather buy a 5 year old 912 with 1500 hours that has been properly serviced and run continuously... than from a private individual who has only done 100 hours and never serviced it in the 5 years...

Evidently, the flying schools sell them quite cheaply.... they just buy a new one... out with the old and in with the new

as manything in life there is a choice to make ... Elwood is perfectly right to say that it is an expensive engine
not only expensive but Antique I would say ...

but it is a good engine for lazy home builders who don't want to bother with conversions

the USA are a snow country at least in the north, hence there are sleds, selds sellers etc ..; here down thre are not a lot , sleds are only used by professionnals people who work in the the winter resorts

it is not a hobbie

so finding a sled engine is expensive .. as a rotax is expensive in the usa ..

I am exited by both of your aircraft projects , I can't wait to see pictures ,
do you have access to an existing Dom tandem in order to copy the mesurements ? or do you have a plan ?
before I designed my tandem I would have loved to build a dom tandem, but I haven't managed to find a fellow to take some measures from an existing dom.

Mike boyett explained that Ernie had only one plan of the first mono made by a friend who had capacities to do it and that after this he could never make revised plans or any plans for the tendem

Scaled a PDF pic off the internet of a good side view of a Tandem Dominator in Autocad. I have a Single Seat Dominator and have the measurements in CAD. Overlayed them and all the measurements are remarkably close, except for keel length. Concentrating my free time on the EZ, want to get it flying this coming summer. Will post some pics.

ho yes You had already told me that you had done the Cad's from a picture ... I had tried this also, but I could never find a picture really taken at 90° from the bird.

in anycase as you can shift the rotor head you will never get any issued to find the good weight and balance ..

it is eventually a good thing that I designed my tandem from ,scratch .. because I was forced to think and learn hahaha

as for the Long Eze I can't wait to see your bird mate, I love all those stories of people building Rutans .. incredible human adventures ..

I had an old friend who had a long Eze he had build when I lived the Quebec Canada, when he came back to France he took it here... trouble is that he would fly with a mistress ... when his wife discovered he was having an affair at the hangar ... she forced him to stop flying ... the long Eze ended up in a garage ... he offered me the bird ... complete ... but I refused because I am not serious enough to fly anything else then a gyroplane ... I haven't regretted it but what a nice machine he had ...

then a other friend of mine build a cozy .... int 2 years ... working all evenings and all week ends ... his wife never flew with him, and he flew with the famous mistress of the long Eze owner ... but she did not managed to get him in his bed ... hahahaha

I flew one time in the cozy .... trouble is that France is a small country ... and that without planning flight like a jet linner it is impossible to fly a long time because it is so fast that in one hour had aready crossed a third of hour tiny country having to discuss all the time with air traffic control ...

in addition our long paved runways are only controlled airfields .. and we had to pay expensive taxes when whe would land in airports ..

he eventually did always the same flight and I got bored ...

he flew it only 300 hours in ten years ...

Rutans are made for America, not for europe

Any tricks to uploading pics? I have tried and it eventually errors out.

You have the Famous Michel Columban designed aircraft in France!!! When I get tired of paying hanger rent I will build a Cri-Cri, what a cool bird!!! Another design of his I like is the MC30!! You ever get to see these planes fly?